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Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
774
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Posted - 2012.12.08 20:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Turelus wrote:So this is actually a serious question I have always wondered.
So often there are threads from miners saying they're unhappy with the way they're treated in HighSec. They complain that they are can flipped, bumped and even ganked just because griefers want to have fun.
Why don't miners who are upset with this look for NullSec Alliances and join them? There are no can flippers or bumpers in NullSec, your chances of getting ganked are far lower due in intel channels letting you know when hostile forces are coming your way and instantly knowing any one in local not blue is going to shoot you.
There are "hidden belts" that respawn every day (I believe) with far more valuable ores in them to mine.
So why?
can flipping doesn't exist. hi retriever and mackinaw ships, looking at you here buddy!
bumping only happens to afk ice miners, in like 1-2 select systems, which is also easily countered by orbiting the asteroids...
and if people want to gank you, they are going to gank you no matter what you are doing. also, if people bothered to fit a tank they'd encounter such behaviour much less often.
why don't we go to null sec? well firstly, the asteroids are worth a very small fraction more, and involve great transportation costs/effort in order to get our refined product to the trade hub that by the time we've done so; it's less profitable to mine in 0.0.
so let's see, we can sit undisturbed in high sec and mine low ends for decent isk, or we can go to 0.0 and mine ore worth about the same isk and then lose our profits on logistics.
high sec mining is fine, 3 people on the forums complaining about how the bad man made them cry over a game is no indication that mining in high sec is "bad" or "not possible" or anything else, it's just them needing a prescription of man the **** up.
tl;dr high sec mining is more lucrative and less hassle.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
775
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aila Garris wrote:5) Skills. It takes a lot more skillpoints to hash out a career in null-sec mining. You need all your refining skills to make best use of the refining services and high-end mining crystals.
if you can't use t2 crystals you really have no business mining. you'll make more isk doing almost anything else. not to mention if you can use t2 crystals, a mere 2% refining implant will get you lossless refining in a 40% station if i'm not mistaken.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
775
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Aila Garris wrote:There's a lot of reasons, most of which have been pointed out but I'll repeat because I'm like that:
1) Profit. Generally speaking you aren't ....... Thank you for being brave. Good luck.
brave? more like honest. null sec isn't an isk printing monster for miners.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
776
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Dave stark wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Aila Garris wrote:There's a lot of reasons, most of which have been pointed out but I'll repeat because I'm like that:
1) Profit. Generally speaking you aren't ....... Thank you for being brave. Good luck. brave? more like honest. null sec isn't an isk printing monster for miners. EVE is harsh like that.
i don't mind making more isk in easymode high sec than null sec. suits me fine.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:That would also require Refining Level 5, Refinery Efficiency V, and (Ore) Processing I. Then the 5% Implant. Get (Ore) Processing V, and you can forget the expensive 5% Implant in Null Sec. But you will need it at a 35% station regardless I believe. http://eve.podzone.net/refining.phpLet the arguing begin. EDIT: confusing typo
what's to argue about? i know for a fact with the bare minimum skills for t2 crystals and a 2% implant i get lossless refining in whatever stations test have dotted about in fountain. i think they were 40%, certainly weren't 50%. ask a test member, they will tell you, or they won't.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
776
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Dave stark wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Aila Garris wrote:There's a lot of reasons, most of which have been pointed out but I'll repeat because I'm like that:
1) Profit. Generally speaking you aren't ....... Thank you for being brave. Good luck. brave? more like honest. null sec isn't an isk printing monster for miners. See, they'll argue points like this in this thread. I say brave, he says honest. Of course, it isn't ever allowed to be both.  THEY have to be RIGHT.
not sure about every one else, but i'm always right. it's a terribly bad habit i have.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
776
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:stuff, because i can't quote properly
you didn't really say much, it was a rather ambiguous statement, and i just made a response. you mentioned 35% stations when they weren't even the... oh i don't care, i'm off to find more cough medicine.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
776
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
gfldex wrote:In 0.0 miners are taxed. Either by paying rent or by station refinery tax (or both). And them 0.0 overlords wont lower that tax just because you did a few missions for them.
what kind of terribad 0.0 alliances do this?
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
776
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Dave stark wrote:gfldex wrote:In 0.0 miners are taxed. Either by paying rent or by station refinery tax (or both). And them 0.0 overlords wont lower that tax just because you did a few missions for them. what kind of terribad 0.0 alliances do this? That's just they way they all are in null. Ask them why.
none that i've ever been in... 0% refining tax and no rental costs.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
776
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aila Garris wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Dave stark wrote:gfldex wrote:In 0.0 miners are taxed. Either by paying rent or by station refinery tax (or both). And them 0.0 overlords wont lower that tax just because you did a few missions for them. what kind of terribad 0.0 alliances do this? That's just they way they all are in null. Ask them why. Someone's gotta build those stations, capital ships, supercaps, and replacement ships, and most people won't actually donate to the alliance as a whole unless you force them to, so the best way to do it is a tax.
you mean... not every one has a tech moon?
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
776
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 22:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Dave stark wrote:
you mean... not every one has a tech moon?
Dave, seriously STOP. I know YOU know all this very well already.
stop what? i'm not doing anything.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
777
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 23:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
i lol'd heartily.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
778
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 01:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Dave stark wrote:Turelus wrote:So this is actually a serious question I have always wondered.
So often there are threads from miners saying they're unhappy with the way they're treated in HighSec. They complain that they are can flipped, bumped and even ganked just because griefers want to have fun.
Why don't miners who are upset with this look for NullSec Alliances and join them? There are no can flippers or bumpers in NullSec, your chances of getting ganked are far lower due in intel channels letting you know when hostile forces are coming your way and instantly knowing any one in local not blue is going to shoot you.
There are "hidden belts" that respawn every day (I believe) with far more valuable ores in them to mine.
So why? can flipping doesn't exist. hi retriever and mackinaw ships, looking at you here buddy! bumping only happens to afk ice miners, in like 1-2 select systems, which is also easily countered by orbiting the asteroids... and if people want to gank you, they are going to gank you no matter what you are doing. also, if people bothered to fit a tank they'd encounter such behaviour much less often. why don't we go to null sec? well firstly, the asteroids are worth a very small fraction more, and involve great transportation costs/effort in order to get our refined product to the trade hub that by the time we've done so; it's less profitable to mine in 0.0. so let's see, we can sit undisturbed in high sec and mine low ends for decent isk, or we can go to 0.0 and mine ore worth about the same isk and then lose our profits on logistics. high sec mining is fine, 3 people on the forums complaining about how the bad man made them cry over a game is no indication that mining in high sec is "bad" or "not possible" or anything else, it's just them needing a prescription of man the **** up. tl;dr high sec mining is more lucrative and less hassle. if ppl really want to gank you, they'll make sure they have enough alpha available to get it done. the only defence against ganking is never undocking. i dont pay/play to not undock to answer the OP Gùª because they can Gùª because CCP put asteroids in hisec and mining ships in the game .... that kinda says to me "ccp planned for hisec mining" [edit] 2nd defence against ganking --> Gùª dont fit several officer mods Gùª dont carry 500 plex in your cargo
sure they would. fitting a tank is less likely to get you ganked by the bored pvp alt flying around 0.5 systems in his catalyst, though.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
780
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 07:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:Minerals mined outside of high sec are generally used where they are mined. [citation needed]
citation impossible.
kernite and omber do not spawn in caldari high sec belts, hence there's no isogen in caldari high sec belts.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
780
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 08:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Turelus wrote:
Seems CCP has a lot of work to do if they ever want to reach the stage where industry corporations will want to move to NullSec and make money mining and producing things for alliances out there.
It's not just a game (re)design matter but a players mindset one. I don't know about you but not everybody would humiliate themselves into going to a place where they consider you the lowliest form of low life, an "alt worthy" player, "should stop wasting time and join us in the CTA" and so on. Just for some more virtual currency.
i'm a miner, and i've been to null sec. people don't really care if you're "wasting time or joining the cta" hell, most of the time when a fleet went up in fleet finder it was full before i could find it and join. my corp did keep bugging me to contact the industrial director to have a chat with him but after a month of him never logging in at a respectable time during my timezone, i gave up and came back to high sec.
then again, i guess that largely depends on what alliance you're in in 0.0
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
780
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 09:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Why should they go through the bother of protecting an industrial infrastructure when everything they need can be more cheaply and more easily sourced from Jita?
titans, supercaps, etc. can't be sourced from jita.
also, building locally is cheaper and offers profit to those in the alliance with industrial alts.
there's a myriad of reasons why you should do industry in 0.0 if it wasn't such a hassle. as it stands the barriers to doing industry in 0.0 make it easier to just JF everything from jita to wherever you're living in 0.0
that's really not how the game should be, regardless of what you think of industry.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
780
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 09:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Building locally isn't cheaper, except for trivial stuff like ratting ammo, cyno frigates etc, because the facilities in sov 0.0 are so horribly inferior to those in hi-sec. And it certainly isn't easier than just jump-freightering in anything that's needed from Jita.
sadly it is, it stems from mining.
look at the composition of the grav sites in industry systems in 0.0. none of them contain enough trit to build more than about 2 maelstroms [will double check that's right later]. as such if you want to build anything you've got to import the minerals, usually in compressed form... if you're jumping compressed minerals in to 0.0 you may as well just jump whole ships in.
0.0 industry as a whole needs looking at, regardless of whether or not 0.0 players are "anti everything that doesn't explode"
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
781
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 09:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Dave stark wrote:Malcanis wrote:Building locally isn't cheaper, except for trivial stuff like ratting ammo, cyno frigates etc, because the facilities in sov 0.0 are so horribly inferior to those in hi-sec. And it certainly isn't easier than just jump-freightering in anything that's needed from Jita. sadly it is, it stems from mining. look at the composition of the grav sites in industry systems in 0.0. none of them contain enough trit to build more than about 2 maelstroms [will double check that's right later]. as such if you want to build anything you've got to import the minerals, usually in compressed form... if you're jumping compressed minerals in to 0.0 you may as well just jump whole ships in. 0.0 industry as a whole needs looking at, regardless of whether or not 0.0 players are "anti everything that doesn't explode" There are plenty of rocks in the belts if low and mid ends are required; anoms aren't the only place you can mine. But yes I absolutely agree that 0.0 industry as a whole needs looking at.
but nobody's going to mine those belts when there's an infinite source of grav sites which are harder for reds to access. given the choice between sites that have to be scanned down vs belts that any pilot can warp to. the natural vulnerability of mining ships in a way forces miners to use these grav sites with their awful mineral content.
ah well, i'm sure ccp will make some kind of comment about 0.0 industry soon, it seems to be coming up a lot lately.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
781
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 10:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:I am thinking the fix for null sec industry might be to get rid of the jump freighter.
nope. 0.0 is the only place that really produces exportable quantities of mega/zyd/morph. that's got to get back to empire somehow, even if by regular freighter. that freighter then has to make a return trip; why do it empty?
at the end of the day removing jump freighters does nothing but makes null sec logistics harder. it won't solve anything to do with null sec industry in the slightest.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
786
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 20:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Welp, I cannot speak from personal experience, but the logic seems sound. "Welp, I have no idea what anyone actually does in null, but I've arbitrarily decided I know what they do with their minerals!" generaldiscussion.txt right there
you sound surprised.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
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